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CIBSE Energy Performance Group

To improve energy performance of buildings by increasing awareness amongst all building professionals and supporting the implementation of relevant legislation aimed at reducing carbon emissions in buildings

Expert Zone

Current topic: Combined Heat & Power

In this area of the website we provide regular access to experts in their field by means of a Q&A environment. We provide the forum on the basis of one topic per quarter and allow website visitors to put questions to our topic expert(s) during that time. Expert answer/comment/opinion will be posted on this page below each question. We are also keen to harvest lessons learnt so if you have something to say about your experience with Combined Heat & Power that might be of value to others post using the question form. Once the topic has finished, the questions/answers and lessons learnt will be consolidated and posted into the Learning Zone.

This month we are delighted to welcome Phil Jones and David Burke, who are ready to answer your questions on Combined Heat & Power. Biographical information about our experts together with a form for you to put your own question to them may be found below the current Q&A thread.

The current topic closes for questions on 30 September 2010.

If you have a topic suggestion for the Expert Zone please send an email to our Webmaster


Click on the green button beside the question to reveal/hide the expert response(s)

- The CO2 saving formula for CHP should be {(ELECTRICITY UTILIZED x 0.568) + [(HEAT UTILIZED x 0.194) ÷ 0.8]} - (GAS INPUT x 0.194) instead of the one previously quoted in the answer to Cathal Brady's question. However, I have two questions for you. Is there a Government document which sets the standard for CO2 savings calculation? I am using “Low or Zero carbon Energy sources: strategic guide” which has a column for microCHP saying net elecricity generated from CHP to be used for CO2 savings, does this mean useful electricity? Who claims the exported electricity benefit? [ Mohammed, 31 August 2010 ]

- How does SBEM treat CHP DH supply to the new building having external energy supply? The “black box” SBEM assessment was widely criticized, but appears to have continued into Part L2. Can you therefore clarify whether the ‘tick box’ CHP capacity will deliver compliance or if actual CHP performance is considered? [ David Hague, 14 August 2010 ]

- What is the most appropriate way of calculating the CO2 emission for a CHP system? I currently have a gas CHP system and have come across different ways of calculating this. Should you use the delivered heat, delivered electricity, primary fuel used or combination of all three? [ Cathal Brady, 04 August 2010 ]

- Is anaerobic digestion of food waste a realistic possibility for methane to generate CHP in urban areas (cf. Boris Johnson)? What tonnage of waste is required per kWh, and what are rough numbers in terms of contributing households, restaurants, and food stores needed for a viable installation? Can one use all methane available and top up with conventional fossil fuel? Given digestion & waste (starch bags) are sealed, is there any greater hygiene risk than food waste collection as now carried out? [ M Reynolds, 21 July 2010 ]

- Some CHP manufacturers quote efficiencies using the lower calorific of the fuel rather than the higher calorific value. A cynic might say that this is intended to present their machines in a better light. Is there any move in the industry to standardise how performance data is presented? [ Martin Ratcliffe, 20 July 2010 ]

- Would you suggest “Gas Engine + Vapour Absorption Machine CPC” for a 12 hours office bldg, size 300,000 sq ft, for a hot and humid climate like India (no heating required)? I have seen CHPC calculations based on 100% captive power with heat recovery figures quoted on 100% load (which should be 80 - 85% load) and without any heat loss in exhaust gases. Also, there are no calculations for start-up & stop time that the Vapour Absorption Machines with a huge quantity of LiBr required? [ Sandeep Dahiya, 20 July 2010 ]

- The biggest restriction to having CCHP is the cost of paying EDF Energy to allow long term parallelling with their network. In London there are very few EDF substations that will allow a connection because it puts up their fault level which presents a risk to their personnel. With this additional cost and,in our case a requirement of the planning application, results in a much poorer payback. Do you see any solution other than all new planning application paying for the upgrade of the EDF network? [ Andrew Gallaway, 19 July 2010 ]

- We are currently looking at the feasibility of installing a 1000 kWe CHP unit into a centralised (currently coal fired) boiler house producing MTHW for a hospital site. We've an outline study conducted which looks at overall elect and coal use and compares it to the existing with proposed CHP. However, I am concerned that we may need to look in much more detail e.g. very carefully matching overall heat and elect demand CHP exhaust temps etc. Is there as standard detailed tech template to use? [ Neil M Alcock, 19 July 2010 ]

- I will be designing a monitoring strategy to test and compare performance of a dCHP and a condensing boilers installed in residential buildings. I am wondering whether Phil or David know any existing/past monitoring projects or publications can help me and provide suggestions to the occupants? I looked into Micro-CHP Accelerator from Carbon Trust, it seems that the final report is not ready yet. [ yan xing, 19 July 2010 ]

- What are the top three improvements needed to current CHP technology to increase use of CHP over the next 5-10 years? Similarly, what are the top three perceptions of CHP that need to change so that the improved CHP systems receive broader market acceptance? [ Jeremy Poling, 19 July 2010 ]

- I am interested in the long term strategy for providing heat as fossil fuels are phased out. A simple analysis indicates that a large CCGT power station (67% efficient) feeding ASHP with a COP of 3.5 produces more energy overall that local CHP for a given gas input. Of course CHP could feed an ASHP, conversely CCGT waste heat could be utilised for DH, but the ASHP model possibly is a better lead in to a de-carbonised grid. Anyone have any views on this? [ Nat Stott, 19 July 2010 ]

- I am after information on the use of CHP in the middle east and any applications when linked to absorption chillers, especially any lifecycle cost models which can be modified if necessary to reflect the reduced utility charges and the higher operating temperatures. [ Kevan Harrison, 19 July 2010 ]

- Firstly, having recently attended Phil’s seminar I am aware that Biomass has not been too successful to date, although not overly used, and that biofuels appear the better option. Could you give me some pointers as to why? Secondly, I am aware that a CIBSE conference was scheduled for the 28th June regarding CHP and that the topic of a biomass CHP that has been installed at the University of East Anglia was due to be discussed. Could you advise on the out come and issue any relevant notes or information. [ Naddy Parperi, 19 July 2010 ]

- Has any work ever been done to clarify whether connecting retrofitting a gas fired mini-CHP in series or parallel is best in terms of overall CO2 savings? To my mind parallel is the way to go but I guess it all comes down in the end to careful consideration of CHP and system flowrates and reducing the boiler flow temperature so as to maximise CHP operating hours. [ Kevin Boniface, 15 July 2010 ]

- Applications are appearing for CHP that are fuelled by pure plant oil (rapeseed). In the calculation of carbon emissions what is your opinion on the carbon factor that should be used. Building Regulations PartL only gives a value for biomass although the latest SAP factors actually give a very low value for this fuel type. I am unaware of any actual documented value that may originate from any other source but I am interested in the general impact to Part L, CRC, BSF PFI carbon compliance etc. [ Steve Hunter, 15 July 2010 ]

- I am looking at the basic feasibility of installing CHP in a very large office building in London, with a view to reducing net electricity consumptions and overall emissions. The initial stage is a desktop study using CHP Sizer 2, obtained from DECC, to identify possible solutions based upon consumption profiles. Can you recommend other software for basic analysis? [ Mike Harbord, 14 July 2010 ]

- What do you see as the opportunities for CHP in buildings in a future where smart meters, and eventually a smart grid, are expected to be fully implemented? [ Gary Sturgeon, 14 July 2010 ]

- In your opinion, what is the best way hydraulically, to integrate small scale CHP into a residential gas fired district heating system operating with an 80/60 deg.C F&R with de-centralised hot water storage? [ Ashley Allsop, 14 July 2010 ]

- I am working with a London borough trying to identify energy saving opportunities within two of their Leisure Centres which have pools. It is well known that CHP is well suited to these buildings. However, the older centre used to have CHP and had so many problems with it it was removed. The newer centre circa 2005 CHP unit costs so much to maintain it’s not cost effective to operate it. So my question is how to convince them that CHP is a good way of saving energy and money? [ Neil Coleman, 14 July 2010 ]

- How can the use of CHPs become extended, given the present limitations of the need to constantly shed heat? [ Paul Bailey, 14 July 2010 ]

- I have sized a tri-gen system for a cooling load of approx. 1MW flat load 24/7, the CHP size is 1.2MW. I have now found out that the cooling load is 3MW flat load 24/7 therefore the CHP is going to be 3x the actual size. This is a pretty large gas volume at the meter. Could you highlight on any problems on the gas draw or systems as large as this one please? [ Angel Lagos, 14 July 2010 ]

- Are CHP sets available that run on bio-diesel? [ Dave Freeman, 14 July 2010 ]

- I was working on lubricant development for diesel and gas engines for CHP in the early 90’s of which there were thousands in the Netherlands, Germany and Austria. Why has the UK CHP market been so slow to grow? [ David Hughes, 14 July 2010 ]

- What is the industry norm for CHP gas engine utilisation? [ David Lively, 14 July 2010 ]

- Why is gas not a more favoured fuel for engines used in CHP plant?. The capital cost of fuel storage facilities and bunds etc can be avoided but there must be thermodynamic or other cost factors which preclude its more frequent use as a generator fuel? [ Steve White, 14 July 2010 ]

- DUKEs suggests that in 2008, there were 987 CHP installations in the UK which are CHPQA “Good”. Table 6D suggests that the average electrical efficency is 23% and heat at 44%. 15 installations in London are greater than 200 kWe. None are new, none are in offices. CHP>5MW seems sensible if all heat is used locally. As the electricity grid is decarbonised, gas-fired CHP becomes less carbon efficent. Is small scale CHP therefore a short term solution and should this be publicised? [ Dr Rick Wheal, 14 July 2010 ]

- Is CHP a cogeneration engine? How about CCHP (combined cooling heating and power) systems? When and how can we apply these technologies? [ Luga Martin Simbolon, 14 July 2010 ]

- A point that interests me in this area in the context of the more recent micro CHP units in the domestic dwelling arena is how to deal with excess heat, assuming that any excess power can be fed to the grid. The other question is when off the shelf units are used in an off grid application, how to manage both mismatches when they occur. Deep cycle (or at least allegedly!) batteries with 5 year life spans, coupled with large, well insulated HW storage tanks does not seem the way to go. [ Colm O hAonghusa, 13 July 2010 ]


Click on the green button beside the question to reveal/hide the entry

- Peter Copland, University of Dundee

- Jermaine Bernard, Hyder Consulting


Meet the experts

Phil Jones has spent the last 30 years trying to make buildings more energy efficient, with British Gas then as an energy consultant for WS Atkins. For the last 20 years he has run independent energy consultancy Building Energy Solutions. He carries out building energy research and training across a wide range of buildings and technologies including CHP. He is a visiting research Fellow at London South Bank University and teaches on CHP. Phil is the main author of CIBSE Guide F - Energy Efficiency in Buildings and also Good Practice Guide 388 – CHP for buildings. He is currently chairing a revision of CIBSE AM12 CHP in buildings and has carried out numerous training courses on CHP in buildings. Phil recently carried out a major community CHP feasibility study across the South Bank area of London.

David Burke has been at Clarke energy for the past three years, working on gas engine and combined heat and power applications. Before this, David spent five years working on reciprocating engine applications. David has an engineering degree, in which he specialized in mechanical engineering with an emphasis on fluid mechanics and thermodynamics.


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